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[ArtHands]

Black Myth: Wukong Is Eating Your Inputs on PS5, and It's a Problem with Performance Mode

What's in a frame

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As it turns out, though, Digital Foundry has identified an additional performance mode problem that we never quite picked up on. According to their analysis, Wukong actually makes use of frame generation tech in order to close in on its 60fps target. Basically, frame generation does exactly what its name suggests — it artificially provides more frames per second to give the impression of a smoother visual experience.


However, in Wukong's case, the frame generation results in increased input lag. Essentially, you're playing the game at around 30fps — it's just that the frame generation makes it look like you're sitting pretty at 60. Inevitably, this means that you'll run into moments where you'll swear that you pressed the dodge button, or hit L1 to take a sip of your health-restoring drink — but the input simply doesn't register.

Black Myth: Wukong on PS5 is fetching, flawed but fixable

Black Myth: Wukong - testing the PS5 version vs PC, plus an analysis of the three modes: performance, balance and quality. Digital Foundry investigates.

www.eurogamer.net

This puts the game in an uncomfortable place, as you're getting the visual fluidity of 60fps, but with graphical artefacts and more input lag than you'd expect at 30fps - not ideal for an action game, even on played on gamepad.

 

[ReBurn]

Hopefully with some time and patches they can even it out. PC was definitely their priority.

 

[adamsapple]

The game came in pretty hot. All 3 modes have some notable issues that they need to work on via patches.

1. Quality mode: There's no 30 FPS cap, the frame rate hovers between 31 and 36 fps.
2. Balanced mode: Rather than targeting 40 FPS, this has a target of 45 FPS.
3. Performance mode: The image sharpening is horrendous, the frame-gen artifacts aplenty and the input lag as per the topic.

 

[lmimmfn]

I posted in the main thread, I had a horrible time on PC with one of the level 1 bosses, the fire dude.

I disabled RT and frame gen, was getting 86FPS and finished the same boss in 1 go(after at least 10 prior attempts).
I don't know how I would pass same on PS5.

 

[poppabk]

"Essentially, you're playing the game at around 30fps — it's just that the frame generation makes it look like you're sitting pretty at 60."
That is what frame gen is? I'm not quite sure what the news is here.
"Frame generation has been found to be generating frames"

 

[Hugare]

As I've said in another thread: I would rather have 30 FPS with slightly worse input lag but 60 FPS in image fludity than 30 FPS with 30 image.

The sharpening is ass, tho.

I use framegen from 30 FPS on PC and for some games it's amazing.

Baldurs Gate 3, for example, is one game that a slightly worse input lag would be so worth it for 60 FPS. Hopefuly devs wont be scared by DF.

 

[lmimmfn]

"Essentially, you're playing the game at around 30fps — it's just that the frame generation makes it look like you're sitting pretty at 60."
That is what frame gen is? I'm not quite sure what the news is here.
"Frame generation has been found to be generating frames"

I think it's moreso to do with actual FPS of 30FPS vs perceived 60FPS with frame gen.

There's a huge input lag difference either frame gen if base FPS is only 30FPS. Made worse for a fast action game like this.

 

[clarky]

As I've said in another thread: I would rather have 30 FPS with slightly worse input lag but 60 FPS in image fludity than 30 FPS with 30 image.

The sharpening is ass, tho.

I use framegen from 30 FPS on PC and for some games it's amazing.

Baldurs Gate 3, for example, is one game that a slightly worse input lag would be so worth it for 60 FPS. Hopefuly devs wont be scared by DF.

Frame gen is amazing in stuff like BG3 and the like. I wouldn't dream of using it in anything that requires perfect timing like FPS or Fighting games.

 

[Gaiff]

I don't get what was so difficult. What they should have done:

1. Quality Mode with a dynamic res with a 30fps target and a 30fps cap. Resolution floor of 1080p.
2. Balanced Mode with a dynamic res with a 40fps target and 40fps cap. Resolution floor of 1080p.
3. Performance Mode with a dynamic res with a 60fps target and a 60fps cap. Resolution floor of 720p with FSR upscaling to 1080p when needed.

No frame generation in any mode.

Instead, they fucked up all 3 modes.

 

[kruis]

I posted in the main thread, I had a horrible time on PC with one of the level 1 bosses, the fire dude.

I disabled RT and frame gen, was getting 86FPS and finished the same boss in 1 go(after at least 10 prior attempts).
I don't know how I would pass same on PS5.

Were you playing on an AMD card? BMW should have support for Reflex (which reduces the latency) on Nvidia cards.

 

[Gaiff]

Were you playing on an AMD card? BMW should have support for Reflex (which reduces the latency) on Nvidia cards.

It doesn’t.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I think it's a little sad that gameplay feel is the first thing on the chopping block these days. And people tolerate it.

 

[kruis]

It doesn’t.

What do you mean exactly? That BMW doesn't have support for Nvidia Reflext or that Reflex doesn't reduce the latency?

 

[Crayon]

Oh so that's how frame gen works. /S

 

[Pop]

That's what frame gen does

Whats the story here

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Were you playing on an AMD card? BMW should have support for Reflex (which reduces the latency) on Nvidia cards.

For some reason in Wukong you can only turn on Reflex if you also turn on framegen. Don't ask me why, the settings UI is kind of dumb

This also prevents RTX 20/30 cards from using Reflex because they don't support framegen which is also dumb because Reflex works on those cards in other games

 

[Hugare]

That's what frame gen does

Whats the story here

"Gaming journalist" is finding out about it just now, that's what

Being this oblivious about videogame tech when you do this for a living is just ... too much

 

[Gaiff]

What do you mean exactly? That BMW doesn't have support for Nvidia Reflext or that Reflex doesn't reduce the latency?

BMW doesn’t have Reflex.

 

[Gaiff]

For some reason in Wukong you can only turn on Reflex if you also turn on framegen. Don't ask me why, the settings UI is kind of dumb

This also prevents RTX 20/30 cards from using Reflex because they don't support framegen which is also dumb because Reflex works on those cards in other games

I don’t see Reflex in my menu. I have frame gen on.

 

[West Texas CEO]

This won't be an issue on my new PS5 Pro.

 

[Represent.]

feel bad for the framerate warriors who cant get over a little input lag.

 

[RainyNguyen]

I don’t see Reflex in my menu. I have frame gen on.

Same, benchmark has reflex option, right?

 

[Gaiff]

Same, benchmark has reflex option, right?

No, it's nowhere to be seen. I have the latest NVIDIA drivers and they state this: Game Ready For Black Myth: Wukong, Featuring DLSS 3, Full Ray Tracing & Reflex

Not seeing Reflex anywhere, however.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Maybe the developers have been using game streaming for so long they consider lag normal.

 

[hlm666]

This won't be an issue on my new PS5 Pro.

Hope it's getting a nice cpu and memory bandwidth bump because alot of this shit lately isn't just a gpu issue.

 

[Pelao]

I don't play on PC, so I'm not familiar with this frame generation thing. Is it like the frame interpolation that TVs do? Because that has always generated a certain level of input lag even on the most advanced TVs. If that's the case, frankly I think it's a ridiculous technology to be using in an action game.

 

[adamsapple]

I don't play on PC, so I'm not familiar with this frame generation thing. Is it like the frame interpolation that TVs do? Because that has always generated a certain level of input lag even on the most advanced TVs. If that's the case, frankly I think it's a ridiculous technology to be using in an action game.

It's kinda similar.

The thing that leads to the lag is that it's meant to be used at high frame rates as a base. This seems to be using a 30 FPS base to do the frame-gen. Games like Immortals of Aveum use FSR3 frame gen on console too, but that game already targets 60 as its baseline, so the interpolation effect is a lot less pronounced and actually ends up being a pretty positive boot to the performance with minimal extra lag.

 

[JaksGhost]

You see how an issue had to be pointed out to them after several hours of playthrough to even warrent this article:

For the record, we had started to notice some kind of input lag while venturing further into the game for review purposes — but we were putting it down to the protagonist's long attack and recovery animations. Digital Foundry's findings make much more sense of the situation.

This is why the general public still purchases these games despite performance issues because they simply don't care or just chalk it up to some aspect of the game.

 

[PendekarRajawali]

No wonder Sony removed 8K logo from the box.

 

[MCplayer]

Well cool I guess my reflexes are super fast then but yes, some inputs dont register and did notice the input as soon as I started playing, you get used to it tho, no big drama honestly, this from a guy who plays simracing as fast paced competitive games.

 

[Stuart360]

This has been explained before. The problem with 'frame generation' is the latency or input lag is half of whatever the framerate is reaching WITH FG.
So in this case if the game is hitting 50's a lot with FG, you're getting the input lag of a game in the 20's, i'e shit.

A proper locked and perfect frame paced 30fps would of felt way better. Of course the game doesnt have one for some weird reason.

When i try FG on PC games, it never feels, or even looks like true 60fps. I really dont like using it.
Funny thing is the benchmark (havent tried the actual game) ran at 'real' 60fps for me on my 1080ti, at much higher graphics settings than PS5 too (mix of high and very high). And yes i have a big OC on my 1080ri, and tried the benchmark at 1080p, i still feel if the PS5 performance mode had been 1080p instead of 1440p, it probably could of done a 60fps mode without FG.

 

[Duchess]

Isn't it always a thing that frame generation causes input lag? I'm sure I've read / heard that before?

Edit: Stuart360 has already explained..!

 

[Heisenberg007]

I'm not going too hard on Game Science, as this is their first AAA game. And, apart from some performance issues and optimizations, they have done a great job with the game itself.

These issues, on PC as well as PS5, are most likely temporary and will be patched soon, and we will have a very good game in 3-5 months. Just like almost every AAA game and studio.

 

[DenchDeckard]

"Essentially, you're playing the game at around 30fps — it's just that the frame generation makes it look like you're sitting pretty at 60."
That is what frame gen is? I'm not quite sure what the news is here.
"Frame generation has been found to be generating frames"

Frame gen was designed to be used at framerates of between 60-120 FPS and 40 FPS and above on NVIDIA cards.

It's not designed for 30 FPS games. Maybe the tech can evolve and it works well in the future but this initial implementation at 30FPS isn't great.

 

[RaduN]

20-ish fps input lag with 50-ish fps frame gen scrolling is the absolute worst case scenario in any game that requires even a minimal reaction time.

 

[Valedix]

Hope they put lots of patches out in time for the physical version.

 

[EDMIX]

Hope they put lots of patches out in time for the physical version.

This.

Will wait for patches and physical version for PS5

 

[Clear]

People need to stop parroting the PR line "frame generation". Its just motion smoothing tech. Always was, always will be because it works specifically on the rasterization part of the renderer, not the game engine driving it.

 

[kazuyamishima]

Tech issues or not, majority of players on PS5 don’t seem to care, the game is #2 on PSN US ahead of Madden NFL25, COD black ops 6 and CF25, so it must be selling well.

 

[Zathalus]

I don’t see Reflex in my menu. I have frame gen on.

Frame gen auto enables reflex when toggled on. There is no separate toggle in this game if you want reflex and no frame gen, which sucks.

 

[Bojji]

Frame gen auto enables reflex when toggled on. There is no separate toggle in this game if you want reflex and no frame gen, which sucks.

I hope it's just devs incompetency and not some new "fun" Nvidia requirements to make frame generation look better than it is. This is not the first game fucked up like that.

For example in still wakes the deep you can't enable reflex on anything other than ada, it says that it's not supported lol.

 

[Little Mac]

 

[owandeseis]

"Essentially, you're playing the game at around 30fps — it's just that the frame generation makes it look like you're sitting pretty at 60."
That is what frame gen is? I'm not quite sure what the news is here.
"Frame generation has been found to be generating frames"

Problem is you'll have more input lag than if you were playing at native 30 FPS, and that mode already has a noticeable input lag, specially on consoles, so you are watching a 60 FPS game, but playing as if it was a 20ish FPS game.

That, and all the artifacts too.

 

[Astray]

A new genre of Arthands thread: The Cope Thread

 

[keefged4]

I genuinly feel sorry for those stuck with the PS5 version knowing this, The first thing I did was turn off FG on PC as the input lag was very noticable, even with the base framerate being over 60fps. It's not suited for these types of games at all.